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“The more we look into social structures, the more many of us realize we don't fit into them," says So Mayer, author of the new book Bad Language. "So each phrase or set of vocabulary is another piece of that dismantlement.” We discuss finding vocabulary for oneself, coming out as a speech act, growing up under Section 28, busting through oppression and shame, and joyous listening.
Content note: in the episode we refer to sexual abuse or crimes against consent, and to suicide, but we do not go into any detail about these things, or describe any experiences. Also there are some category A and B swears.
EXTRA MATERIALS:
Miranda Fricker who coined ‘testimonial injustice’ and ‘hermaneutical injustice’ as types of epistemic injustice has several publications on the topic.
“Gay men spoke of “coming out” into gay society — borrowing the term from debutante society, where elite young women came out into high society. A 1931 news article in the Baltimore Afro-American referred to ‘the coming out of new debutantes into homosexual society.’ It was titled ‘1931 Debutantes Bow at Local ‘Pansy’ Ball.’ The 1930s, 40s and 50s witnessed a growing backlash against this visible gay world. In response, gay life became more secretive.”
Alumsionist Paul Baker has written a book Outrageous! The Story of Section 28 and Britain’s Battle for LGBT Education, a personal history of the anti-gay law that was in place throughout nearly my entire time in formal education.
“Years later, Baroness Knight sought to explain her involvement in the implementation of the hated legislation… in 2018, she told BBC’s Newsnight: “The intention was the wellbeing of children. And if I got that wrong, well, I’m sorry… and nobody told me at that time.” That seems unlikely. Indeed, even a cursory inspection of Hansard (the official report of parliamentary debates) suggests that there were MPs at the time who were vehemently opposed to the legislation. For example, Labour’s Tony Benn, argued: “If the sense of the word ‘promote’ can be read across from ‘describe’, every murder play promotes murder.””
Today I happened to be reading an interview with author Olivia Laing (who used to be my editor many many years ago when both our careers were very different!) and they said this which resounded with the episode I was finishing:
“I grew up in a gay family. My mum was gay in the 1980s in the U.K., which was a time of intense state-sponsored homophobia. There was a law called Section 28, which meant that schools and local councils couldn’t teach about the so-called “pretended-family relationship” of homosexuality. It was really about the gay family almost above all else.
So to live in a gay family, in those times where you are actually explicitly outlawed, and to grow up inside that kind of closet, and then to come into teenage years during the AIDS crisis, and to experience that level of hatred is to give you a really strong insight into how some types of bodies—how some types of people—are treated compared to others, and to have a deep, intrinsic skepticism about the state’s capacity to put people into categories and to treat people in some of those categories in absolute different ways to others; to make people feel that these divisions are natural and that the people who are the natural category that’s applauded, that’s desired, don’t even see until they find themselves crossing over those lines.”
Mae Martin on shame: “I think guilt can be helpful. If you do something bad, guilt and empathy can motivate you to change. But I don’t think shame motivates you to change. I think it motivates you to self-destruct, so I think we’ve got to get rid of it.”
Otherlusionists relevant to this one: reclaiming the cunt word; erasure of queer identities is mentioned in the episodes about bisexuality and being aromantic/asexual; and we very recently talked about book bans.
Arnie Niekamp of Hello from the Magic Tavern has a new podcast out called No Skip Christmas; it’s all about Christmas music, and I got to be a guest on it to talk about one of my favourite topics, the difference between the UK and US festive pop canon. Listen here or in the usual podplaces.
Support the show at theallusionist.org/donate and as well as keeping this independent podcast going, you also get behind-the-scenes info about every episode; livestreams with me reading from my ever-growing collection of dictionaries; and the charming and nurturing Allusioverse Discord community, where among daily sharing of thoughts and amusements, we're watching The Princess Bride, the current season of The Great Canadian Baking Show, and the new yarncraft competition Game of Wool.
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YOUR RANDOMLY SELECTED WORD FROM THE DICTIONARY:
leman, noun (plural lemans) archaic: a lover or sweetheart.
Origin Middle English leofman, from lēof (see lief) + man.
CREDITS:
So Mayer is a writer, organiser, publisher, and bookseller at the independent bookshop Burley Fisher Books in Haggerston in London. Find their work at somayer.net. Their latest book Bad Language is out 13 November 2025 from Peninsula Books, and they co-edited another new book: The Word for World: The Maps of Ursula K Le Guin, there’s also a free exhibition to go with that book at the Architectural Association in London, until 6 December 2025.
This episode was produced by me, Helen Zaltzman, on the unceded ancestral and traditional territory of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and səlilwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.
Music and editorial assistance was provided by Martin Austwick. Download his songs at palebirdmusic.com and listen to his podcasts Song By Song and Neutrino Watch.
Find the Allusionist at youtube.com/allusionistshow, instagram.com/allusionistshow, facebook.com/allusionistshow, @allusionistshow.bsky.social… If I’m there, I’m there as @allusionistshow.
Back in two weeks with a new episode - HZ.
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